"film curator, writer, lecturer, and paramedia ecologist has conducted interactive workshops from UCLA to MIT, from the Ann Arbor Film Festival to Culver City High School. Fialka gave two major lectures at The 2001 North America James Joyce Conference at UC Berkeley. His public interview series MESS (Media Ecology Soul Sessions), with the likes of Mike Kelley, Alexis Smith, Abraham Polonsky, Mary Woronov, Paul Krassner, Ann Magnuson, Heather Woodbury, Norman Klein, Chris Kraus, P. Adams Sitney, Hunter Drohojowska-Philp, Kristine McKenna, Ann Magnuson, John Sinclair, Grace Lee Boggs, Firesign Theatre's Phil Proctor, Van Dyke Parks, Orson Bean among many others, began in 1997 and continues at different LA venues including Beyond Baroque and the Canal Club. Fialka's interviews have been published in books by Mike Kelley and Sylvere Lotringer. His William Pope.L interview was published in ARTILLERY magazine."
As archaeologists dig up the buried objects and sculptures of ancient cultures made of bronze, Detroit producer/MC Bronze Nazareth, who raps about being "The monolith prepared to wait beyond the common length," shines underground, rewarding those listeners who venture beneath the surface. After debuting on Rza's Birth of a Prince 10 years ago, Bronze has become an underground king.
While his fellow next-generation Wu-Tang affiliate (and likewise metal-named colleague) Cilvaringz grasps for widespread attention and notoriety with publicity stunts like the single copy Once Upon a Time in Shaolin album, Bronze simply goes about his business, continuing to pile onto a resumé that's earned him the respect and interest of the elite practitioners of his artform. Besides putting in work with the entire Wu-Tang Clan, Sunz of Man, Killarmy, and producing albums for Timbo King and 60 Second Assassin, he's already crafted bangers for the likes of Immortal Technique, Kool G Rap, Tragedy Khadafi, Jedi Mind Tricks, Roc Marciano, Copywrite, Tragic Allies, La the Darkman, did a full album with Willie the Kid, and produced an upcoming album for hip hop legend Canibus (on that note, get ready to hear Pete Rock rap over a Bronze beat).
And that's just his outside work. Spearheading his own movement, Bronze has led his Detroit crew, The Wisemen, for a whole slew of group and solo projects. In the midst of this staggering workload, Bronze also blesses fans with his own solo efforts. The latest is Thought for Food Volume 3. The first solo Bronze release in three years, it's a bundle of twisted wordplay and abstract metaphors packaged up in a style of hip hop that's rugged as Michigan winters and dirty as a Detroit storm drain. A recurring metaphor on the record is the diamond trapped in a rough block of coal, likewise this Bronze batch as a whole is as beautiful as it is harsh. Go listen to and purchase it here.
The Bronze Bomber was generous enough to answer some questions about his newest release, mostly focusing on his unique lyrical approach as well as a consideration of the turbulence of our moment in history.
Continuing my discussion with Bronze Nazareth and Kevlaar 7 of the Wisemen, touching on the current social climate in Detroit, the state of modern hip hop, future projects they've got lined up, and more. Be sure to check out Part 1 talking all about the new album Children of a Lesser God as well.
When we left off, you guys had explained the name of your label "Black Day in July" and Kevlaar you described how the '67 Detroit riots left an indelible scar on the city. In this depressed, declining, deteriorating American economy it's the Motor City that really seems to be "ground zero" where the effects are hitting the hardest. What is it like living in Detroit right now?
Kevlaar 7: To me there’s a constant stress; like a fog in the air…that’s the whole state of Michigan really, though. This was an industrial state where there used to be so many factory jobs, you could quit one and land a new job the next day and not give a fuck. Most of those smaller factories branched off of GM, Ford, and Chrysler, so when they go down, ALL of them go down. The housing market is FUCKED UP, the crime is high, unemployment is in the top 2 in the nation, etc, etc, et-muthafucking-cetera…
Bronze Nazareth: Yeah Michigan is sunk right now. A lot of people who’ve lost their job, can’t find a job, and standing in unemployment lines, then the unemployment runs out, and what’s left? Getting by however you can right? But Detroit, which is primarily an African American city, is one of those cities forgotten by politicians. It has remained racially segregated, and most people who get educated and find good work do so outside of the city, therefore abandoning it. Lack of revenue and corruption have led to crises in government, and the transit system, and half of the schools here have shutdown since 2005. Don’t get me wrong, many Detroit activists have been working endlessly on these issues locally, but these problems see little state assistance and funding compared to other regions. Coincidence? Unlikely if you ask me. Just look at other cities, where there’s a good number of African Americans and minorities– Flint, Newark, Baltimore, Gary, Memphis, these places usually round out the poorest cities as well. This is a high interest issue to me, and a lot of people want to say “get over slavery” but Black folks are owed for centuries of unpaid slave labor that built the roots of America’s economy, as well as we are owed money for years and years of being discriminated against on issues such as wage and employment matters endured since the 13th amendment. Detroit (and many other areas of the USA) still suffers from the the inheritance of slavery and its remnants.
Do you plan to continue to live there for the future?
Kevlaar 7: I will always have a home here, but I really want to move somewhere nice and quiet where I don’t have to worry about my babies and how they will handle certain things in this environment…
Bronze Nazareth: Me, I love it here. I don’t so much love the state and the economy here. But I think as long as you raise your children right and keep them out of the warzone, I’ll be alright here. I won’t leave willingly, if I leave I’ll be forced out by economic pressures.
That area has definitely been an extremely fertile ground for talented hip hop musicians. I'm hearing everybody rave about the new album "Gas Mask" by The Left and it's produced by a very skilled Detroit producer named Apollo Brown. I've seen "Black Day in July" mentioned along with his name before, how are you guys connected with Apollo Brown?
Kevlaar 7: Yeah there’s some ill talent sprouting from this place…That Gasmask joint is dope. You remember Cheehf? That’s Apollo Brown…well, shit, I’ll let Bronze build on that…
Bronze Nazareth: Detroit is Motown! This is the new era of Motown, the hip hop era. Soul was it back then, hip hop is the urban outlet now. As far as Apollo Brown, I taught him how to make beats, chop samples, pull out the basslines, etc. I gave him his very first program to make beats with, gave him the cool edit program he still uses to make beats with. I’m pretty sure he made the Gas Mask album with that program. He was once one of the Wisemen, back in the beginnings of Black Day and Wisemen Approaching but some ill things happened and we fell out. We’ve been reconnecting as of late, so look for some records in the future from us. He’s doing his thing and I wish that brother the best of luck. Oh, he did that Waters of Nazareth joint from back before The GreatMigration too.
[Bronze Nazareth - Waters of Nazareth (produced by Cheehf/Apollo Brown)]
Have you worked with him on any recent material and when might we hear that?
Kevlaar 7: Yeah I just talked to him a couple weeks ago, and I’m gonna slide through there and check some of his joints and see what I can snatch up.
Bronze Nazareth: Yeah we’ll get down, sooner or later on some new shit.
What do you think of the current state of hip hop?
Kevlaar 7: I think the creativity and artistry is making a very strong come back. It’s been real watered down and exploited to the fullest by the biggest companies for about the past 6 or 7 years. Hip hop is EVERYWHERE. But the purity is making a hell of a comeback, for real.
Bronze Nazareth: I think this sales decrease we see is slightly bullshit. Commercially it’s harder to see your product out there, partly due to digital purchasing, and due to artists being able to upload and sell their own shit. It doesn’t take particular skill to call yourself a rapper nowadays, and home studios have turned the regular joe into a rapper so it’s completely oversaturated and buying may be more spread out so you have to build and concentrate on your fanbase nowadays. Hip Hop is still troubled.
The underground (for lack of a better word) scene seems to be thriving talent-wise lately, I feel like there are more and more PURE hip hop emcees and producers springing up, folks like Tragic Allies, the whole I.W.G. crew (especially A Man Called Relik), Noble Scity, that group I mentioned earlier The Left, and many, many more. That naturally gritty, grimy hip-hop-at-its-peak sound seems to be coming back, do you see yourselves as a spearhead to this reemergence?
Kevlaar 7: No doubt, we been doing this our whole careers, making music that we wanted to hear and that ain’t never changed, and it never will. It’s ill to be looked at as one of the leaders in that resurgence and at the same time connecting and building good relationships with all those you just mentioned, word.
Bronze Nazareth: Obviously this is our arena. We went through the bling era, the hipster movement, etc, now it’s back to quality hip hop because people are living real life and not these gimmicks. There is a need to relate, and hear a bit of yourself in music now, the majority of people aren’t popping bottles and making it rain, and splurging everywhere they go with 8 cars and a mansion. I think that, though people like to party and imagine a better life, more so people want to know that artists are seeing what they see, feeling how they feel and going through regular life too. Also, the underground is more and more independent, so creative control is back to an all time high. Not as many artists are being asked to give hits, because they control their own sound. It’s definitely a time for us.
What do you foresee or hope to see in the future of hip hop? With so many true emcees (like yourselves and the ones mentioned in the previous question) coming up but almost all of the record company dollars going to more commercial, watered-down "American Idol"-type acts, do you think a big change or revolution in the hip hop industry is on the horizon?
Kevlaar 7: That revolution is here already…you’re witnessing it. It’s only going to grow.
Bronze Nazareth: Yes of course, it’s getting to a point that even the distribution companies are going to be obsolete, with artists uploading their own music. I see stores where people go in and hit a download station, and fill up their iPod, CDs are more than halfway out the door, and for artists who have built a name, the only obstacle is marketing and promotion. He who can grind the hardest, wins.
Do you guys approach your music as a therapeutic medium? By that I mean, if you weren't making any money from it, would you still be doing the same thing you're doing now?
Kevlaar 7: Most definitely. I been writing for too long, that shit is therapeutic to me mentally, as well as banging out beats. Ain’t too much money in this shit anyway, and that’s why A LOT of these fly-by-night so called emcees or “artists” don’t last too long. The shit’s got to be in your blood.
Bronze Nazareth: I’d definitely continue. It was therapy when I began, an outlet. So I just don’t know how to live without that release. This is why a lot of our music is life based.
Do you agree with this statement?: Most if not all of the greatest modern writers and poets of the past 15-20 years have been hip hop emcees.
Kevlaar 7: Got to agree with that. Who could it be? I would say Dr. Cornell West and Michael Eric Dyson, but they will tell you it’s been hip hop emcees as well…
Bronze Nazareth: I can agree to a degree. Writing in depth is a whole different monster than albums or verses, but there are definitely some great writers in hip hop as well as many in literature.
Do you think hip hop can or will be a major force for positive global change and unity as we move into the future? (Like Erykah Badu says, "It's bigger than religion, it's bigger than the government")
Kevlaar 7: It’s going to have to be. At the least, a major force within us as likeminded people and thinkers. Unity is the key though, just like with anything. The government has ulterior motives and plans that don’t even include us as common men and women. Religion can make moves as far as global change also within themselves and their own religion, but I’m not sure if different religions can work together because of all the wars and disagreements that have been going on and which will result from an attempt like that. KP [Killah Priest] was right man, religion divides. Straight up. Maybe if there was a real attempt to truly understand one another, in religion and just as a people in general, we may start moving toward what we need as a human race to survive and thrive together.
Bronze Nazareth: Yes, I think so. Imagine a Jay Z / Roc Nation led album denouncing police brutality studying cases such as DJ Henry or a West Coast album with artists such as the Game and Ice Cube and Nipsey Hussle album concentrating on Oscar Grant and similar political agendas. Will it happen? Who knows but we do know that some of society’s most powerful voices are hip hop artists. Imagine Lil Wayne – throwing a serious movement such as a March reminiscent of MLK’s efforts? In no way am I putting him above or equal to Martin but as far as a voice if used in the right way – he’s got the people’s ears right now. These big time artists have shown a capacity to change parts of society.
What do you think of this society's appreciation or lack thereof for true art?
Kevlaar 7: I’m always disappointed in that; it’s a lack of understanding that the lack of appreciation for this art is born out of. I had this woman hit me on Facebook about a month ago that I went to high school with, and basically she said “damn I can’t believe you’re some type of big ‘thug’ rapper now”…I had to laugh at that because she obviously hadn’t listened to our material, or has grossly misunderstood it. The only other way I could discern how she came up with that label of me was how I dress and carry myself in the pictures, or videos I have on Facebook. I would say there is a huge misunderstanding of the art of hip hop by these naïve, conservative, traditionalists. Much like their misunderstanding of Islam, for example. You have to do the knowledge on everything yourself so you can form an educated opinion or point of view, so you ain’t just talking shit out of the side of your neck, with ignorant points of view, sounding like a straight asshole.
Bronze Nazareth: I hate this lack of appreciation, because it’s something that can be fixed. I’ve sat with many people who were commercial music junkies. I like to ‘convert’ them. I like to help them look at what is so important about true art, point things out, highlight the thought that goes into this art. I can usually get them hooked on the true shit. But it takes time and effort to do this, and you can’t possibly reach everyone. So being that there is more people who casually listen, there isn’t many who will sit and really listen to the details, or they will hear what you are saying but not put any thought into it. At times it seems pointless to craft this poetry because it’s just overlooked. It’s like training for four years for the Olympics, only to have the judges disregard your efforts. Very disheartening.
What is your favorite art or artist outside of music?
Kevlaar 7: I would have to say mine is the art of acting. Denzel is THAT dude, yo. Gotta go with my man Don Cheadle too.
Bronze Nazareth: I like photography and visual arts, like album covers, still photos. A beautiful picture can take your mind in so many directions. It’s like freezing life.
Did you see the movie "Inception"? If so, what did you think? Would you ever write a song with that much complexity and elaborate structure?
Kevlaar 7: Hell yeah, yo that movie is sick. I watched it twice now and I gotta still watch it a few more times to catch everything. That’s my type of movie. If I wrote something with that much complexity I would have to look into making the song a movie. That shit is ridiculous.
Bronze Nazareth: No, still haven’t seen it.
Bronze, when I was first seeing your name on the internet about 7 years ago you had this lime green website with crazy animation and all kinds of amazing beats--what happened to that place? And will we ever hear those beats?
Bronze Nazareth: Well the designer Jordi for Jor-On retired that site. He was doing it out of love and decided he had to hang it up for that one. As far as those beats, they may be heard or not. I have a lot of beats just sitting here, no one has used and many of those particular beats haven’t been chosen. As we go along they may surface. I’m not really a fan of releasing instrumentals due to all the jacking and biting these days so maybe I’ll splash some verses on those and throw them out. People always ask me about those beats.
[Here's one of my favorites of those old beats, called "Taming the Iron."]
Years ago there was anticipation about an album called "Two Champions of Shaolin" where you and Moongod Allah were gonna go back and forth, what ever happened to that? Will we ever hear your half?
Bronze Nazareth: Moon addressed this a few times, he had some personal setbacks and wasn’t able to finish his side of things, so when I turned my half in, it ended there. It’s definitely a serious mix, I still have my half, but it’s a bit outdated with the kung fu sample laden parts when we laced in there, so I’ll keep it in the vaults for now.
Kevlaar, I know the world's been anticipating your upcoming first solo album, Die Ageless, ever since we heard the impressive sampler for it last summer. What's the status on that, how is it sounding, who is producing?
Kevlaar 7: Yo, I’m creeping up on the finish line with sniper’s precision on that joint. It’s 94% done. Only a few things left to do, and it’s sounding exactly how I want it to sound. As far as producers of course I got Bronze, myself; also Woodenchainz, J $crilla blessed me, and my man from Albuquerque, Central Intelligence. I’m letting a new track off the leash in a few weeks…
The sampler for the upcoming Die Ageless LP:
How about this new EP you have coming out soon, what can we expect to hear on there?
Kevlaar 7: Word, it’s titled “Who got the Camera?” and you will hear nothing but militant, against the mainstream grain, revolutionary material, and strong political statements. I’m bringing together producers and emcees from all over the world, plus me and Bronze and we’ll see how the public is feeling that…It ain’t on no type of commercial shit, only real life.
Will it be a digital-only release, or a CD available in stores?
Kevlaar 7: It will be a digital release, maybe physical later on, but digital is really the path to take nowadays, most of these fans nowadays ain’t purchasing the physical.
Bronze, your next project has been my most anticipated album for years now. Tell me about School for the Blindman and when we might hear it.
Bronze Nazareth: Next 5-6 months it’s guaranteed to be out here. I had to wait for some features, and wait out a situation so it could be released the right way, I’m on track, it’s done except for one song. Got some heavy features, the ones people wanted to hear on Migration are now on the joint and it’s that Bronze fire….look out for Bronzeman 2. Classic street poetry theatre.
You guys both did one of the best beats on Hell Razah's new album, and Bronze we've heard an incredible beat of yours on Vinnie Paz' last album and you did a lot of work on the 60 Second Assassin record, what other production contributions do you guys have coming up soon?
Bronze Nazareth: I did bout 80 percent of Timbo King’s album ["From Babylon to Timbuktu"], joints on Kevlaar’s album, me and Phillie started on “Welcome To The Detroit Zoo”, Salute’s solo “Diggstown” has a lot of my work on it, Illah Dayz’ solo “The Illahstrator”, as well as June Mega’s “Ultimate Proportions” all of which will definitely see 2011 release dates. Let it be known that I intend to release these joints for sure in 2011 with no label or distributor red tape, no politricks, I take care of business and if it were up to me, no pushbacks and BS would stop me. However, I’m in position to handle the rest on my own agenda, which means I finally have control and can call the shots. I’m also in the works on something big, with a bona fide gold and platinum proven legend, I won’t say who yet, because it’s in the legal stages and could still fall through so I don’t want to put anything out there yet.
Will you be touring soon or doing any in-store appearances to promote the new album that's just dropped, Children of a Lesser God?
Kevlaar 7: Oh yeah no doubt all that is in the works, we’re just still busy banging out these projects.
I know you have many fans overseas, any plans to do a tour in Europe soon?
Kevlaar 7: Yeah, shout out to all our fans and fam from all over Europe, man they support us heavy there, it’s crazy. We have several shows pending out in Europe, and hopefully we can get some tours cracked off there too…just holler at gee@bronzenazareth.com if you want to bring Bronze, me or any number of the Wisemen out to your zone, and he will get it done!
I know you guys are tight with Cilvaringz [European Wu-Tang affiliate], have you worked with him at all recently?
Kevlaar 7: Yeah, hell yeah good brother right there man…me and him have passed some joints back and forth over the years, hopefully we can get something rolling soon though.
Bronze Nazareth: Yeah I did some work with him recently. It will surface soon. That’s my good friend though always.
What artists would you still really like to collaborate with? (Personally, I've been wanting to hear you guys alongside Cormega for a while.)
Kevlaar 7: Jay Electronica, Joell Ortiz, Mos Def..there’s A LOT man. The Horseshoe gang…of course Andre 3 stacks and Nas…someday…
Bronze Nazareth: Mary J Blige, Erykah Badu, Cee Lo Green, Goodie Mob, Joell Ortiz, Slaughterhouse, Andre 3000 as well, Jay Elec, Jay Z, Lil Wayne, I could go on and on….
Final thoughts?
Kevlaar 7: Ya’ll will be hearing A LOT more from us and the whole Wisemen crew through the rest of this year and ALL YEAR next year so get ready to fill up a whole iPod with our shit…word.
Bronze Nazareth: This will be the year for us as far as releases. No more waiting for these releases. We have heat stored up and ready to blast, fuck the politics this year we’re done with the holdups!
For the last four years, there have been no contemporary musicians whose music I've enjoyed more than the newest and strongest branch of Wu-Tang's vast, evergrowing family tree, Bronze Nazareth and, more recently, his brother Kevlaar 7 along with their group The Wisemen. In 2006, Bronze's debut album The Great Migration left me permanently awestruck with its combination of melodic bombastic beats and cerebral-emotional, memorable rhymes and I was floored by the quality of his next release. In February 2007, Wisemen Approaching was released, an album on which Bronze introduced his own army of emcees to the world including his brother Kevlaar 7 who powerfully displayed his talents for production as well as pure lyrical slaughter. The rest of the cast is no different, these are emcees who approach writing a verse with the precision of a man building a miniature ship inside a bottle and deliver their words with the passion of a starving man singing for food.
Since then, they've put out a couple of mixtapes to try to satiate the hungry fans but it's been their next full-length album that we've all been waiting for. And, as of this past Tuesday, it's here. Their brand new sophomore LP Children of a Lesser God features a revamped team of Detroit emcees (Bronze & Kevlaar plus Phillie, Salute, Illah Dayz, and June Megalodon) rapping over beats that mix dulcet instruments with creative, cracking hip hop drums.
Bronze and Kevlaar (real names Justin and Kevin Cross) were gracious enough to bless A Building Roam with an interview discussing their new album, their group, and how they approach their art form. Enjoy.
I want to start off by saying congratulations on the release of your new album. It’s been a long time coming, over three years since the debut album Wisemen Approaching. Listening to Children of a Lesser God, it seems like you guys have really updated the sound while still maintaining the core of pure hip hop.
BRONZE: Thanks! Definitely feel like we had the people waiting but in this business there’s many politics that get in the way of real music and its outlet. We had a few obstacles and had to play a waiting game for a minute or we would have been to the rescue earlier. The whole squad is glad to be back on the verge, and we keep it updated because it’s all genuine, and real life. Authenticity never gets outdated.
KEVLAAR 7: Appreciate all the love and support always; we worked HARD on this joint. It was our aim to update the sound, but at the same time keep the sound of that pure hip hop in the mix. We will never lose that.
There’s a lot of live instruments on the album, at time it reminds me a little bit of Jay-Z’s “Unplugged” album with The Roots, how did you incorporate these into the creative process? Was that the plan from the start or was it added in later on?
KEVLAAR 7: Bronze brought Project Lionheart into the mix, and really we just asked them to compliment whatever beats we sent them with live instrumentation, with Bronze suggesting what instruments to incorporate into a beat and blend it with the actual sample. That was the plan from jump. The live shit helped bring a bigger sound overall…
BRONZE: Exactly. Big shouts to Caleb Cunningham and the very talented Project Lionheart. I call Caleb the live instruments director. I basically knew what I wanted to add to each of the beats, some of them already had a lot going on, such as “Panic In Vision Park” so we left those alone. The ones I knew would sound good with instrumentation, I could hear it, I knew what Lionheart could do, so I asked for horns on this one or a bassline on this one or whatever whatever. Unlike many session musicians, PJL knows how to execute exactly what I asked for, and keep it hip hop. It all fit perfectly!
Have you given consideration to doing a live performance of the album with a live band providing all the instrumentation?
KEVLAAR 7: That’s crazy that you say that because me and Bronze was just talking about the possibility of doing a tour with Project Lionheart, and doing purely live shows, Roots style. That shit would be CRAZY, I would LOVE to pull that off…
BRONZE: Yeah I actually was able to perform live with the whole Lionheart Band on two show dates in Seattle, it was beautiful! Myself and June Mega had a blast on stage there. To have a tour with the band would be glorious! We’ve talked about it, but like K said we’d really have to pull some strings to pull it off.
What is the meaning behind that awesome title, "Children of a Lesser God." I saw on Wikipedia that there was a movie with that title about a speech teacher at a school for deaf students which reminds me of the title for the upcoming Bronze solo "School for the Blindman."
KEVLAAR 7: Phillie and Bronze really came up with that title. It was going to be the title for the first album, but it didn’t fit for a debut album title. What it means is that throughout the trials of life, at some points when shit is so fucked up, a lot of things come into question…The Wisemen have all asked themselves if our God was lesser at one time or another…It’s a reality in a lot more people’s minds than people would like to think…
BRONZE: Every man who has had trouble, setbacks, and trials so severe sometimes that he might question the higher power, not lose faith but have questions. This is nothing to doubt God or anything but the intro says it all really where the speaker is like ‘I been here before, asking for God’s help, a lot of times, okay? And my situation is not getting any sunnier’ he then suggests that ‘maybe God isn’t carrying his end of the weight’… You can sometimes look at someone who is prospering, and wonder why you haven’t been blessed as much, you might feel like you have a lesser or weaker god. That speaks to us, we’ve all been there - I know I’ve wondered sometimes why God has not answered my prayers, a lot of people get there. So we represent for those people who have questions and go astray from their faith.
You’ve got the legendary Wu-Tang dartsmith Raekwon featured on “Thirsty Fish” and I know you guys just filmed a video for the song with him. What’s it like working with the Chef?
BRONZE: Yeah we ended up getting some footage of Rae to add to the video, so it should look pretty dope. He was nothing but gracious, and him and his people showed a lot of love to me, Kev and June Mega. Ever since my relationship with Raekwon developed, he has been the realest nigga! Much respect and appreciation towards him and his camp!
KEVLAAR 7: Word, hopefully everything goes how it should go for that video, but we also shot one for “Faith Doctrine” which will drop b4 “Thirsty fish”. We met up with Rae in Chicago and he showed nothing but love, blessings on the song. He said the beat was on some back-in-the-day hardcore Wu shit. Real Genuine brother, for real.
Might we see more collaborations with Rae in the near future?
KEVLAAR 7: I would love to work with Rae more, no doubt. He’s a legend, and brings a lot of experience and wisdom to the table; so if you have a co-sign from Shallah Rae, you doing something RIGHT…I truly appreciate Bronze for making that happen, and allowing Rae to bless some of my production, he could have kept that in the vault for his own shit if he so desired.
BRONZE: Yeah Rae will end up on a few more beats of mine, I’m not gonna speak on exactly what - but it’s definitely more coming. He hit me today and told me the pre video for Thirsty Fish looks like crack, so I’ma continue to nurture our relationship and keep sending him this heat, and we gonna keep it right!
The first album, Wisemen Approaching, had a pretty dark sound overall. On this one it seems like you guys were having a little more fun (like the old men chattering on “Get U Shot” or the Richard Pryor samples). Is it because you’re more established now?
BRONZE: I can’t even say this was done purposely, it was really just the way we were feeling when those joints were made. All of us were in a certain place when Wisemen Approaching was constructed. Fresh off the block, or still in the streets, escaping tragedy narrowly, Phillie and I had our first babies on the way at the same time (that birthed ‘up there beyond’). Those days we just happened to let it all out over super rough dark beats. This new album, was more like a sigh than a hostile reaction. Instead of ‘Founder of Pain’, we said this shit ‘makes me want a shot’ of liquor!. It is a bit lighter though I agree, perhaps it’s our expansion.
KEVLAAR 7: I wouldn’t say that us having more fun on this record really has anything to do with being more established, because nothing is “more established” except the Wisemen name, and our individual titles. We’re still going through the same trials and tribulations we were going through before Wisemen Approaching came out. But that’s life. Long story short, we wanted to show our range a little more with this album, and I also would say this album shows our growth as artists. True artists grow from project to project. I feel we still haven’t reached our pinnacle though.
Who is doing the talking on “Get U Shot”?
KEVLAAR 7: That’s JB and Cleveland just shooting the shit about the Wisemen crew! [Laughter] I knew that question would come eventually. That’s me and Break Bred FOOLIN’! Trying to get my Oscar nod, you feel me? LOL! We’re imitating old cats we been around or are related to…Old cats be HYSTERICAL yo…like Eddie Murphy and Martin Lawrence in Life…HILARIOUS…JB and Cleveland will be recurring characters in the future.
Tell me about Illah Dayz, his absence from the first album, and his big contribution to Children of a Lesser God.
KEVLAAR 7: Illah was absent from Wisemen Approaching album because of his unfortunate car accident where he was left paralyzed from the waist down…That brother has more strength than almost anyone I’ve ever had the privilege to know. The accident happened on a night after probably the first recording session for Wisemen Approaching. Illah’s contribution to Children of a Lesser God was huge, because he comes with such visual verses, and on top of that his style of word play…I’ve never heard word play like his. It’s ill, and ORIGINAL.
BRONZE: Yeah we actually recorded “Super Bowl Cipher” that night. That was the last time he was walking. The accident happened right around the corner from our spot on Ward Street in Detroit, maybe five minutes after the session ended. He was in the hospital, unconscious, laid up for quite awhile, so we had to keep rocking in his honor. I feel horribly bad about it, and somewhat feel responsible for that because we shouldn’t have let him leave so late, it was like 5 AM. But I only live with the guilt, he lives with the chair. Soon though with stem cells we’ll rock live with him stalking the stage like he should be. He is the strongest brother I’ve met, maybe ever. He did a 4 or 5 year bid then a few years later, he gets hit in the car. It’s unbelievable the trials he’s been through and is able to keep his head up, where some of us would crumble.
One of my favorite tracks on the album is “Lucy,” the drums are so powerful, the tempo is fast, and the verses are amazing. I wonder, though, is it just bad relationships with women you’re talking about or is there a double-meaning to it?
BRONZE: My verse is really about a relationship yet with a twist. I speak on all the sinful shit me and this woman have done, been through our negative routines, how we enjoyed the devilishness but at the very end the twist comes, I’m saying ‘yeah we did all this wild shit, but now we got kids, so it’s time to slow down and live right!’ So at the end I say ‘now we got seeds/ proceed to slow the leaves / Lucy straighten your bottle / the club closed at three!” Then the hook come and sums my verse up: love ain’t what it used to be!
KEVLAAR 7: On my verse I can tell you that it is about bad relationships with certain women in my life, and how my or our relationship with hip hop has been over the course of time, with all the ups and downs, and shit…
[Here's a snippet from "Lucy"]
I'm really impressed with the track from Big Rube where he's speaking poetry over a beautiful Bronze beat. I had never heard of Big Rube before, didn't know he was this good. What led to his great contribution to the album?
KEVLAAR 7: You never heard of Big Rube?! Wow! I have always been a HUGE Outkast/Goodie Mob/ Dungeon family fan ever since 1993 and Southernplayalistic…I first heard Big Rube on that album and he made an appearance on all of Outkasts and Goodie Mob albums, spitting CLASSIC poetry that would uplift and teach. He was also a member of the group Society of Soul, and yo, that album is CLASSIC too. What led to him getting on the album was, me being a big fan, I hit him on twitter; I said my piece, and asked if he had a contact so I could get at him. Rube hit me with his email contact and from there it was ON. Bronze and I sent him a few beats a piece to choose from, and he laid a BEAUTIFUL verse for us, much respect to Big Rube and the whole Dungeon family…
BRONZE: You’ve definitely heard of Big Rube bro! My favorite piece by him was on ATLiens just before 13th Floor, he is gifted with words and wisdom, so only right that he joined forces with the WISEMEN.
Okay, I remember that ATLiens track now. So, Kevlaar you've got a bigger contribution of beats to this album than the last and your beat batting average has been superb these last few years. What is your history as a producer? And what equipment do you guys make beats on, the ASR-10?
KEVLAAR 7: Thanks I appreciate the props on my production. I’ve worked VERY hard to perfect it since Bronze laid the blueprint out for me. I still haven’t perfected it, but I’m going to keep smashing the production out. I try to keep my batting average like my man Miguel Cabrera, WORD! Of course, my production history starts with The Wisemen, and Bronze Nazareth. Me and Bronze produced “Fragments” together on Think Differently. Then I did 4 tracks on Wisemen Approaching, our debut album. I’ve done joints on the Almighty album, I did a couple tracks on Cilvaringz “I” dvd, a joint for Inspectah Deck called “Get down wit me” off of his album Resident Patient; a couple of upcoming tracks for Cappadonna, and most recently me and Bronze did the joint “Medical Kush” off of the brother Hell Razah’s album Heaven Razah…as far as equipment I use Cool Edit Pro and Pro tools.
[Here's one of Kevlaar's instrumentals that was featured on the aforementioned Cilvaringz DVD. This is a personal classic.]
One thing we didn’t hear too much of on Wisemen Approaching or even The Great Migration is all the quotes and interludes from films or other sources. You guys used them to great effect on mixtapes in the past and now there are a few very good ones on this album (especially the intro). How do you choose these and what effect do you hope to achieve with them?
KEVLAAR 7: Basically we just look for movie clips or excerpts from speeches or what have you that would fit or enhance what the concept of a certain joint is, or the feeling we’re looking for… eloquent type shit.
BRONZE: I really use them to connect things. I might search for hours, for instance the clips on Faith Doctrine….about how he didn’t read it or witness it, he ‘lived it’. That’s us! We don’t portray ourselves falsely, you will not hear me say I’m a gangster or thug, but I will get by. I call myself a survivor, cause you can put me anywhere and I will survive. At the end of the song the speaker mentions something about, hard work and faith – so that’s our faith doctrine, it connected to the hook and we’re all rhyming about making it. I like to connect all elements, so it’s easily cohesive.
That opening exchange is so potent and perfectly leads into the album's cinematic opening track. Are you willing to divulge where that's from?
KEVLAAR 7: Yeah, Bronze is a MASTER with placing the movie clips on a song or an album. All of the skits tie the album together too, there is a vision for everything on our projects.
BRONZE: I won’t say where it’s from but it’s an easy find….
Do you have a personal favorite track on the new album? Or at least a favorite beat or verse...
KEVLAAR 7: Wow…that’s hard for me…it may change, but my favorite track would be “Victorious Hoods” as of right now…my favorite beat is easy to me; “Panic in Vision Park”…and my favorite verse is Bronze’s clip on “Makes me want a shot”…CLASSIC.
BRONZE: Favorite track is probably Faith Doctrine, it came together so well, and I found the clips that fit our ‘righteous survival’ feel on that joint. Favorite beat is tied between Faith Doctrine & Corn Liquor Thoughts….my favorite verse right now is…Phillie on Faith Doctrine or me on makes me Want a Shot…can’t really decide lol
When I’m listening to some of these songs I detect that there’s just an insane amount of thought and craftsmanship. For example, the verses often seem to have connecting threads to one another or identical patterns. Tell me about the creative process of a song. Who does the “directing”? How do you decide who will spit on a track and in what order?
KEVLAAR 7: I can say that every line is carefully written and thought over several times before its final. Lyrics can be subject to change all the way up until it’s time to mix the joint. With me there are a lot of abstract words or lines that I use, that may just describe how I am feeling emotionally at the time; a verbally descriptive picture of the colors in my mind, I guess…This is an art. Anyone of us can do some directing of a song at any given time because we are a team like that, and everyone has come with an idea or concept that we’ve incorporated into the album. It is usually the producer of the joint we’re recording that does most or all of the “directing” of a song. As far as who ends up on a final track it would be whoever was present during the crafting of the song, and who pens the illest verses…period…Or there have been times that a certain song we felt called for 1 of us specifically. But we’ve all been cut from a song at one time or another.
BRONZE: The process is an attempt to perfect the art we’ve placed on the song. Many times, a verse will get cut, if I feel like the verse didn’t do the beat justice, it’s gotta go! Or sometimes it might even be a nice verse but it may not fit the theme of the song. We’ll use that verse elsewhere. As far as directing, I do handle a lot of that, but it’s just that – direction. For instance, Lucy...I came with the beat and Illah pulled out this verse about his ex who he wrote that message to. The hook had the exact line he ended his verse with ‘Love ain’t what it used to be Lucy….’ He laid it, and then I asked everyone to write a verse about their “Lucy” and we laced it. Regarding lyrics, we will pick out each other’s weak lines and say ‘yo you can come better than that!’ As captain I may have to do that more than anyone else, but that’s my job to get everyone to display their best art, or we fail as a team.
Bronze Nazareth and Kevlaar 7. You’ve both got interesting names and I know there’s a lot of meaning behind them. Tell me about the genesis of and the meaning behind your names.
BRONZE: My name is from, you know the Wu era where you might name yourself after a kung fu movie. Cilvaringz actually gave me the Nazareth additive, and they wanted me to call myself that. I added the Bronze to represent the extreme fight by the Monks in the movie The 18 Bronzemen. In it, they had to fight 18 Bronzemen to be able to leave the Shaolin temple and live normal. I adapted Nazareth to link it to the Prophet Jesus, who had his own fights and struggles, but also healed many.
KEVLAAR 7: My name is impenetrable. It represents perseverance, determination and resolve through the journey of life…The 7 is the number of completion. God’s number. It was also my jersey number when I played football hahahahaaa…
I also find it interesting the connection between the “Nazareth” and the “7” with your actual last name, which is Cross.
KEVLAAR 7: That is kind of ill, huh? It just happened like that, but I would say that is a representation of the natural connections that continually occur within our art…
BRONZE: Sometimes things connect without attempting, this is one of them. Hopefully that means we will stay blessed!
Synchronicity. How did the Wisemen come together originally? Have you all known each other for a long time?
KEVLAAR 7: Back in 2002, shortly after Bronze showed me the ropes on production and shit, he hit me and said yo…We should form a new group called “The 7 Wisemen”. The 7 crew members hadn’t come to fruition by the time we were ready to record and release the first album, so we went ahead and dropped “Approaching” anyway. Bronze met Salute and Phillie and brought them into the fold and shit was ALWAYS brotherly so it was only right. I met Illah in passing, and we didn’t even know each other was into the music until my girl told his girl that I fuck with the rap shit, LOL! Before that we was always looking at each other like, “who the fuck is this nigga” type attitudes, LOL! June Mega and Bronze grew up together and me and him was always fam too, and he been with us since the “Unknown” days.
Yeah I remember hearing him on the Unknown album, is that him on "This Thing of Undying Love"? How did he get that name June Megaladon?
KEVLAAR 7: I would have to go back and listen, LOL! I don’t remember but Big June did have a couple of speaking parts on the Unknown album.
BRONZE: Yeah that’s him for sure! Back then he was named Immortal….he also is on "Everything’s So Deep," speaking in the middle of the verses I believe. We been running together for years!
Tell me about “Black Day in July."
KEVLAAR 7: Black day in July is the name of the label myself and Bronze have formed. It’s named after the 1967 riots that were caused by a police raid of a blind pig joint in Detroit (basically an illegal after hours bar). The shit went haywire and the army was called in and all that, mad arsons, snipers, and looting; people basically tore the city of Detroit apart. It really hasn’t recovered since then, so what we’re trying to do is at least mentally resurrect the city, and people going through struggle all over the world by touching them through the music.
BRONZE: Black Day had been coming together since 2003, when we built our first studio. It was just the name, and a dream for a while. After some success I was able to get it registered as a true business, and the dream began turning to a reality. We dropped a couple releases with other labels until we could build our name enough to get some looks by distribution companies. I had to endure a couple shitty deals in order to build that name, but a man who doesn’t sacrifice, earns nothing of value! Currently we are an official label with distribution, both digital and physical, and I’m proud to say we had five or six different suitors for distribution. You will most likely see our future projects come through several different pipelines, as we will go with whichever distributor is the best fit for each project.
